This a.m. the Lord led me to do some Bible translation/version research. I found the following:
Source: http://www.av1611.com/
"Virginia Mullenkott served as a consultant on the NIV translating committee, together with the deceased Marten H. Woudstra (a homosexual), and therefore it is no wonder that the word "sodomite" is not found in the NIV."
In research, I read that, according to Virginia Mullenkott, she was not an open lesbian when she worked with the NIV. Currently, she is an open lesbian.
I googled Virginia Mullenkott and found on http://www.wikipedia.com/:
"...She is...an active member of Christian Lesbians OUT. She served as a stylistic consultant for the New International Version of the Bible. Mullenkott is an open lesbian..."
Chairman of the NIV Old Testament translation committee, Dr. Marten H. Woudstra (deceased), was a homosexual.
Sources:
http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/
http://www.av1611.com/
www.jesus-is-lord.com/nivhomo.htm
http://www.av1611.com/ :
On home page, on top left of screen, click on "King James Bible Page" - once there, on right of screen, click on "Bible Version Comparison Charts."
The charts are:
1. Westcott and Horts Magic Marker Binge
2. Various contradictions and omissions
3. Bible versions and the preeminence of Christ
http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/:
On home page, on left of screen, a bit past the half mark down the screen, click on "The Bible" - from there scroll down to "New International Version (NIV)" and notice such headings as:
- NIV publisher (Zondervan) is owned by people who publish The Satanic Bible.
- Which Bible verses did the NIV delete? (The Jehovah's Witness "Bible" deletes the EXACT same ones. All of them)
- NIV perverts even the tone of the word of GOD (e-mail from a former NIV reader)
- NIV Old Testament Chairman, Dr. Marten Woudstra, a Sodomite Homosexual
- Former NIV reader says NIV alienates the Father and the Son
(The former NIV reader stated, "Sure, I got saved by the NIV, but it made Jesus a little bit distant from the Father.")
Also, on that subject http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/ page, there are other Bible translation headings.
I am not a gullible person who believes all that I read or hear. As our Lord's Spirit leads, it is wise to seek the Lord, pray, read, hear, and seek the Lord, and pray some more. Only our Lord can lead us to the fullness of truth.
Before proceeding here, I need to clarify that I am not urging anyone to change the version of the Bible that you read unless, of course, you seek the Lord, and He instructs you to do so. These are my experiences which I felt led of the Lord to share.
As were many other Christians, I was raised with the original King James Bible. Also later, as did other Christians, I began to read other Bible versions. A few years ago, The Amplified Bible is the one that I mostly used until one day the Lord spoke to me and told me to mostly use the original King James Bible. I began to do so.
After some weeks, I noticed that I had become more potent and powerful in the Lord. I did not attribute that to the change in Bible versions until I moved to Florida and met a pastor who uses an original King James Bible. I asked him why he read that version. He responded that it was the most potent and powerful version. That is when I knew that that was why I had become more potent and powerful in the Lord. Of course, I know that obedience to the content is vital.
Also, the original King James Bible is easier to memorize and it has more rhythm. I have a relative who mostly uses the New King James Bible but when she reads the Psalms, for rhythmic reasons, she reads them in the original King James Bible.
Some people express that they cannot understand/follow the archaic language in the original King James Bible. A few years ago I read where a five year old child testified of her preference for the original King James Bible. Whatever I do not understand in the original King James Bible, I pray for the Lord to help me to know. In fact, daily before I open my Bible I pray for understanding - trusting that the Lord will illuminate what He needs to when and how He desires.
One Christian friend of mine (I'll call her Debbie) was advised by another Christian to stop reading the NIV version. I did not know that when I shared with Debbie how the Lord had led me away from the NIV and the Amplified versions. She mentioned to me that I was the second Christian who had mentioned to her doubts about the NIV. Another Christian friend of mine (I'll call her Kate) stated that her pastor uses the New King James Version and that she used that version to follow him. I shared with Kate what the Lord informed me, and asked her if she was more concerned about following what her pastor used or what our Lord instructed. I did not advise Debbie or Kate to forsake their versions. I asked them to seek the Lord about it.
Well, weeks later Debbie stated that she had started solely reading the original King James Bible. She mentioned that one day a non-Christian client asked her what had happened to her because she sounded more confident in tone. The only thing that Debbie could attribute her change to was that she now solely read the original King James Bible. A non-Christian noticed that Debbie had become more potent in tone.
As for Kate - first I must state that Kate is very firm about seeking the Lord. When we advise and inform one another, we both crave "Where is that in the Bible" and while we listen to one another, we firmly adhere to seeking the Lord in prayer for final words. Weeks after we had the Bible version conversation, Kate informed me that one day she was in a Christian bookstore and her hand was "drawn" to select from the shelf an original King James Bible. She knew that it was the Lord who led her to purchase it. Later, she too expressed to me the potency of it versus the New King James Bible. She further stated that though her pastor uses the New King James she has no problems following him using the original King James Bible.
I read where other Christians stated that the development of all of these Bible versions is profit driven. Also, that Satan waters down content in some of the versions because he knows that to omit certain words and scriptures means less potency and power for those who read the diluted versions. Another pastor mentioned how people have all of these Bible versions and don't read and obey any of them. Some of this information caused me to think. Years ago, most Christians used the only Bible version that was primarily available - the original King James Bible. My take is that biblically they had less to choose from but in many cases, they were/are stronger Christians than some are today.
I was led to do some research relative to some of the different versions available. What I discovered was that it is true that some other versions omit entire scriptures, and also they omit and/or change wording that is in the original King James. Some have argued that even the original King James Version is not original Bible text. That is likely true but of the other versions that I have read, the original King James is the best of the English versions that are available.
There is a very convincing comparison chart on the Internet that shows some glaring differences in various version content. After reading that chart, I am more convinced about how the Lord led me relative to primary usage of the original King James. I must add that, on rare occasions, as led by the Lord, I do refer to the Amplified, and my study Bible for commentary purposes.
Ref - The commentary in Bibles:
I was heavily into reading commentaries until - again -
when I moved to Florida, a pastor stated to be mindful about accepting commentaries as gospel truth. And when I moved back to D.C. and took a Bible course, the teachers stressed to receive from the Holy Spirit before reading commentaries. And lastly, a fellow blogger, who was once an atheist expressed that commentaries are not necessarily gospel truth. Now I refer to Bible commentaries only as led by the Lord, which is rarely.
Notes:
- Am I saying that to be a potent Christian, you must read the original King James Bible? No, these are my experiences and the experiences of people that I know. Full obedience to GOD to the best of our knowledge is the answer for spiritual fulfillment.
- When I watch Christian programming, I do have a preference for the bishops and pastors who use the original King James Bible. One pastor, reads first from the original King James Bible and then he reads the same passage(s) from the Amplified Bible. Of course, my spirit needs to bear witness that they are true people of GOD. We know that Satan knows the Bible but does not obey it therefore our spirits do not bear witness to any holy anointed power from him for he does not possess any form of holy power.
- At church, I read from the original King James Bible no matter what version is used by the pastor(s) or guest speaker(s).
- I am an editor and recently edited a book by a Christian who uses the NIV. I did not urge her to use the original King James Bible because that is not my role as an editor.
- Without love, we are nothing - regardless of our Bible usage - whatever the version(s).
In sum, I strongly urge that you seek the Lord as to whether to change the usage of your Bible version(s).
Thank you for your indulgence.
Love,
Sandra
Note: Several posts were done on this topic. If you are inclined to view them all in one place, please go to the SEPARATE TAB on this blog titled, "SPIRITUAL WARFARE/BIBLE INFO" and scroll down near the bottom of the page. The subject topic area is entry [9] and begins after the photograph of the green plant streaming down the brick wall.
Note: This topic is available for copying/printing/distribution. It is re-posted on blog, "FREELY RECEIVED FREELY GIVEN" at http://www.giftsfromglory.blogspot.com/. Specifically, it is located under the separate TAB titled, "BIBLE INFORMATION." Also, on that blog, in the MAIN section, at the top of the HOME page, are listed "Conditions" for such usage.
I do so agree with what you've written here. There were not so many versions when I grew up so using the King James was natural. I love the rhythm of the words. I do not believe there has been a new revelation to mankind that shows the King James has been in error for four hundred years. When reading together -- as we do in Sunday School and in church, being on the same page, same verse, same words helps. Using a variety of versions keeps us focused on semantics instead of the word of God. As for understanding, what clearer question is there than the jailer's: Sirs, what must I do to be saved? (Acts 16:30b KJV)
ReplyDeleteAnd what clearer response than Paul's: And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. (Acts 16:31 KJV)
Hi Grammy Blick -
ReplyDeleteThank you for visiting and for commenting.
I love that you agree with me and some others who feel strongly about the original King James version of the Holy Bible.
Also, I firmly believe with others, that the marketing of all of these versions is largely profit driven. Of course, Satan's main motives are to weaken the gospel message and to cause divisions.
I should clarify here that it is most important to AGREE WITH GOD - beyond all else.
ReplyDeleteSatan's aim is to prevent salvation of souls.
We must do all that we know in JESUS' name to win souls for our Lord!
Please, Lord - help us all!
Have you ever sat with a person who had questions about the Bible? Have you ever read them a verse from the KJV and they sometimes looked at you as if they had no idea what language you were speaking or what that verse was saying... and so as not to lose an opportunity to share God's love for them and His TRUTH - you begin to EXPLAIN to them in your own words what that verse means? At that moment - you are paraphrasing the Word - but for good reason - the end result - underdstaning to bring salvation. You might say something like,, "Let me explain it to you this way....."
ReplyDeleteI grew up with KJV for most of my 40 years with knowing the Lord. I genuinely love the KJV. The thing about translations - is that the KJV is also one having been changed and retranslated on several occasions. In language - when a translation is made to another language - there is a loss that occurs. From English to Spanish - even from Hebrew to English our language is not able to translate ALL that the original Hebrew intended to say - but word scholars have pounded out meanings for centuries upon centuries to give us a clearer understanding.
I also read 'The Message' - yes - after God called me to do so before I went to Jerusalem recently. I was as surprised as you are reading this but - hear me out with what God said to me.
"Stephanie," He began, "you have studied long and hard and you know the Scriptures in your heart. You will take The Message with you - traveling light - reading it like a story."
God did just what He said. My eyes were opened to understand truths in a new fresh light - truths that I had already learned and knew in my heart. The Message was alive - but it was not the 'paraphrase' that was alive in me - but the Message of Christ and His forgiveness.
My daughter is a missionary in Haiti and learning that language is challenging. Often it is when someone says, "Let me explain it to you this way.,.." that she can finally understand the message or the word or the phrase that she is trying to grasp.
While you love the KJV as I do - I pray that this platform you have brought up here today would not seek to cause division - but rather a unity of heart and mind in spreading the message of God's word. In our modern day and time God is speeding up the process in bringing people to salvation because the time is short.... He'll do anything He can to make that message understood.
I would hope that we would not make harsh judgments that separate us and divide us - because that is what satan desires us to do - to argue among ourselves about what version is correct - that we never get to the point for which we were meant to read and understand it. This platform can become a distraction of the enemy. I pray that you will not allow that to happen.
I obeyed God when I took 'The Message' to Jerusalem. When I got home I thought I would put it away. Instead - in my everyday life - God has me reading that along with my KJV, my NIV, and my NLT whenever He desires to give me a greater understanding of how I am to minister to people in this modern-day time in which we live. I still study Hebrew and Greek as well to gain the most understanding when teaching.
A friend who is a missionary with Wycliff in West Africa, recently translated the NT into a tribal Manyanka language. When translated - it was done with words and sounds that the people could understand. KJV was not it.... though it was used in the process.
God called us to share His message [the gospel] with the language to give us understanding for salvation. May His Word be spread abroad in our hearts to take to the nations of every language, color, creed and tongue - whether on a streets in NYC or in our backyards or in Western Africa.
Choosing JOY in HIS TRUTH,
Stephanie
Hi Stephanie -
ReplyDeleteI certainly appreciate your comments and indeed find much value in what you have stated. Thank you for sharing your experiences, as I did mine.
In my piece, I made sure to state that these are my experiences, as well as the experiences of some that I know. Also, I made sure to stress that I am NOT urging people to change the Bible versions that they use but to seek the Lord. More than once, I mentioned that people need to seek the Lord for themselves about the matters, as well as other issues.
I must state, though, that it disturbs and concerns me relative to the research that revealed the distortions and omissions in some of the other Bible versions. To me, and some others, they amount to more than MINOR distortions and omissions. Did you view some of the chart comparisons that I referenced in the subject piece? I am quite uncomfortable with those referenced omissions and distortions.
I expressed how the Lord led me, and some others. Of course, He does NOT lead all of us in the same manner as we are all unique and have unique experiences.
I am ALL for how our Lord determines/decides to have souls gained for, and kept in Him. As I often stress, without love - we are nothing. Also, we know that the Word of our Lord states that we are to get understanding. He clearly knows what works best for each of us...
Again, thank you, Stephanie, for your valuable expressions about your experiences, and those that you know, and have encountered. I can certainly appreciate how the Lord has led you as I hope that you can appreciate how He has led me, and some others relative to the subject matter.
Prayer:
Lord, please, in the name of JESUS, help us all to follow You precisely as You lead individually, as well as collectively - all for Your awesome glory, and for the advancement of Your kingdom.
Thank you, Lord - Amen
I do appreciate your words here, Sandra! I "Amen" your prayer as well. It is only my intention to say that right now - as the 'end' draws closer - God is using many tools to bring people to Himself. His methods have changed [as they do in every generation] but His message is always and still the same!
ReplyDeleteThere was so much more I tried to say when I first wrote my comment but there was a word limit so I had to cut other things out.
I do realize that certain translations and paraphrases alter the Word - that's why we must study it for ourselves - individually and know it in our hearts by the power of the Holy Spirit!
That helps us to recognize error quickly. But I do believe God is using every form of technology and method to get His message out there - to bring the lost to salvation!
I know your heart, Sandra, and I value your words too. I'm glad that we could stay focused on what is important here - the message of the gospel of Jesus Christ! Nothing, and no one can alter that true message!
May He bless you for your sincerity of heart!
Stephanie
Hi Stephanie -
ReplyDeleteYou are solidly right..."His methods have changed (as they do in every generation) but His message is always and still the same."
And for us to "stay focused on what is important here - the message of the gospel of Jesus Christ! Nothing, and no one can alter that true message!" Superbly stated, Stephanie, thank you.
Note: I read today one account where someone asked if it were possible to get saved with use of the NIV Bible. The response was yes, but for the most part, the response indicated that spiritural GROWTH does NOT happen with sole NIV usage. I cannot say, of course, one way or another for all others, but my experience was that I did not spiritually grow as much using the NIV nor the Amplified - like I have spiritiually grown using the original King James Bible. Again, that has been the experience for me, and some others.
Also, during my "season" of reading the NIV and the Amplified, I was NOT reading the original King James version at all.
You mentioned that you use the original King James, as well as some other versions. After I read your first set of comments, I had my afternoon prayer time, and the Lord spoke to me and informed that many Christians do NOT use the original King James Version at all. I got the sense from the Him that He is inclined to have more Christians to reference/use the original King James. However, it is NOT clear to me, at present, whether He means as AN ADDITION to the other versions that they reference, as what you do(using several versions). Now - mostly, the Lord leads me to read only the original King James version though, rarely, He sends me to the Amplified or my Comparative Study Bible which has four versions side by side - NIV, KJV, NASB and AMP.
Ecclesiastes 12:13
"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man."
Stephanie -- very often witnessing does bring out "Let me explain that ..." and we proceed to do so from our own understanding. And I do use other versions in studying -- as Lioneagle -- it is God's message we are to share. And, as quickly as we can as the day draws nearer. I was not aware of the NIV background Lioneagle has added. True to the Berean's methodology, I will search more.
ReplyDeleteThese were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
(Acts 17:11 KJV)
Sandra:
ReplyDeleteThere is another aspect that most 'lay' people may not understand about translations. Some are what is called: "Word for Word" translations and others are "Thought for thought". That is why we may see some apparent discrepencies which are not really that at all - just diffenent approach to the translation.
It is that way with the Hatian language where my daughter is a missionary. She said that everything the Hatians say is put into contractions-- into full thought mode - not just one word - but a whole thought! Imagine trying to translate THAT into the language that those people can understand by way of the Bible and its truth.
You can check most translations online to see if they are a "thought for thought" or "word for word" translation. Some even print it within the Bible heading notes. That might help some people's understanding of how they are to be used!
Again - great challenges here and great process of keeping our focus on Jesus Christ and His gospel!
[[hugs]] Stephanie
Thank you for this post, Sandra. I appreciate the care with which you wrote it, making sure you don't offend others, but make your readers understand that you are sharing a personal experience with the KJV.
ReplyDeleteI was born again through the InterVarsity Christian Fellowship in the early 1970's and at that time the version we used was the RSV. It was also good.
I have also gone through an entire season using the NIV...
And finally these past years, I am using the NKJV... and so far, it has suited me.
However, I have also been reading the KJV and have noted what you said - its potency and its power.
I will dig up my KJV from the bookshelf and begin using it for my devotional reading this 2011 - I sense that my reading this post is a signal from God to move in that direction.
Thank you for your sensitivity and your obedience. Like Stephanie, I pray that others who read this well intentioned post will not misconstrue what you have written.
Love,
Lidj
Greetings -
ReplyDeleteThank you all for your thoughtful meaningful messages. I believe that we all contributed truth...
@Grammy Blick
It is striking to me that you provided The Acts 17:11, as just the other day, the Lord had me reading that scripture. I firmly believe in making it a practice to stress to people to seek the Lord for themselves because ALWAYS HE IS THE SOURCE. Indeed, we have spiritual responsibilites to do as the Bereans in The Acts 17:11 - of particular note to me is that they searched the scriptures DAILY.
@Stephanie
I can truly respect and appreciate what you have expressed relative to the foreign language Bible translation issue. Certainly, you have educated me there. To date, the Lord has NOT dealt with me in that arena so I must confess ignorance relative to foreign language Bible translation matters. I am certainly glad that the Lord has people who are knowledgeable in that subject arena because the gospel is about going out into ALL of the world to decree and to proclaim the gospel truth.
From my USA perspective, again - I am NOT at all comfortable with how some of the translations omit entire scriptures and words that are in the original KJV. Those comparison charts that I cited indeed give me cause for deep concern relative to what has been distorted, changed and omitted....I looked in the actual Bible translations after viewing those charts. Minutes ago, I added a tag on to my original post on this subject matter.
@Lidj
Your comments are indeed helpful. Relative to the usage of the New King James Bible, you may be inclined to read under my separate tab on the Home page here "BIBLE INFORMATION." Under that subject tab is a link that discusses some issues relative to the NKJV.
Again, I thank all of you for your insights. Truly I learned...
Sandra,
ReplyDeleteI appreciate this post and I'm in full agreement with you on the KJV(King James Version Bible) it is derived from the Syrian (and not the Alexandrian manuscripts) and a prayerful and careful study of the words Antioch (Syria) and Alexandria (Egypt)[In the book of Acts] will show some interesting contrasts between the two cities and the kind of men connected with those cities.
Bottom line is that there are essentially only two Bibles 1. The Alexandrian Bible from Egypt and 2. The Syrian Bible from Antioch. The Alexandrian manuscripts are the origin of the Codex Sinaticsu & Vaticanus from which the Roman Catholic Bible and others are derived.
The Protestant movement of the 1500's came about largely through the circulation of the Syrian Bible.
The are many today who do not like and openly criticize the KJV and boast of greater understanding to be gained from more actuate Hebrew translation. I rejoice that we are still learning about things like Jesus' real (Hebrew name) restoring the use of God's true Hebrew revealed name (YHWH; sometimes spelled Yahweh). We can learn much from the Hebrew text and culture; however, I warn all to stay away from anyone who; for one reason or another supply and evil motive to the KJV translators to promote...(none other than themselves)...BEWARE OF THEM!.... And although I've personally find that sometimes because of the KJV translators' work of having to (interpret or supply a word) to say what they think the text is saying; which I've come to understand, when studied with the rest of Scripture in that very topic differs (for the Bible is its own dictionary) then I go with the Scriptural weight of evidence is.
This post is so very important and thanks for sending me a notice of encouragement to weigh in on this most important topic.
Shalom In Yahshua (Jesus) Messiah
I have avoided the King James version because I couldn't make head or tails of it the times I picked it up as an unbeliever -- and I know that other unbelievers would have the same experience.
ReplyDeleteWhen Constantine's Catholic church took over, they required all Bibles be in Latin only. The common people couldn't read Latin, so the people depended upon the priests to tell them what they ought to do. When John Wycliff translated it out of Latin to the current common language, it was a hit. But John Wycliff was strangled and burned by the church for his efforts. Martin Luther translated it to Germanic and lived to tell about it.
Later, King James had an Anglish version translated from Latin and Greek in 1611. It has been slightly been updated through the centuries until the last century. The updates are now given new names such as "King James II" and "New King James."
I use the NKJV and the NIV interchangeably even though that plays havoc with memorization. I don't use Bibles with commentaries for the same reason I don't use Bibles that I have written in; The Holy Spirit usually has fresh manna for me.
ReplyDeleteFor in depth study I will use a concordance. For deeper study I will go back to the more original Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic. Don't forget, most of the New Testament was originally written in Hebrew, which has been lost.
I became a Christian because there was a Christian group praying for me. I read a book that showed the Bible had supernatural prophecies in it.
ReplyDeleteI chose and started reading the New English translation. I became a Christian through what I read. I then prayed for Word of Knowledge and got it by faith. As I was reading, the Holy Spirit would say, "What I really meant there was ___ and the Author interpreted it for me!"
When the Holy Spirit connected me with a Christian group, I found that the interpretations He had given me were "conservative." The group got me to change to RSV, anyway.
When Satan phased out the RSV for the NRSV, I switched to NAS for a season. Later, I switched to the NIV. As Satan jerks around the NIV, I have preferred the NKJV.
Greetings -
ReplyDeleteThank you for your comments Yuri and Timothy. Sincerely, I appreciate what you have added.
@Yuri
It encourages me to know that others are strongly in support of the original KJV. Your information, Yuri, has indeed helped me in areas that I don't fully understand.
@Timothy
Truly, I cannot relate to avoidance of the original KJV. Years ago, many unbelievers got saved with usage of the original KJV because, for the most part, that was the version that was available.
In my piece, I wrote about the five year old child who testified of her preference for the original KJV. I do not understand if you prayed for the Lord/Holy Spirit's help and got it in understanding the version that you used, why you could not have gotten the same such help in understanding the original KJV. When I read the original KJV version and don't understand some content, I pray for the Lord/Holy Spirit to give me illumination and He does - as He decides.
Did you read my tag-on post that I posted today relative to the three examples with the original KJV and the NIV? Also, under my tab, "BIBLE INFORMATION" there is a link that discusses issues with the New King James Version. Also, did you view any of the links that I cited in the original post today, "MY EXPERIENCES WITH THE ORIGINAL KING JAMES BIBLE?"
Whatever, you decide/use, Timothy, I am super glad that you are saved as I am for others whose preference is to use other versions. Again, I state that I gave deep concerns about some of the Bible translations that omit scriptures, and words such as what I cited in my TAG ON post today.
I remain a firm supporter of the original King James Bible as a daily reference and study. As I indicated, rarely, I reference the Amplified and my Comparative Study Bible which has four versions side by side - KJV, AMP, NIV and NAS.
Certainly, the Lord works with us all uniquely, and only He knows what is in our best interests individually and collectively.
My prayer is that we all follow our Lord as true worshippers who worship Him in spirit and in truth.
Love to you all,
Sandra
HI Sandra,
ReplyDeleteIt sounds like you've gotten a lot of good responses to this post. I think that's great! Thank you also for the comparative research info and links.
Yes, I primarily use the NIV and will probably continue to do so until the Lord leads otherwise. I grew up on the KJV and most of my bible verse memorization is in KJV and over the last 20 years I've used both. I am not bothered by your research because 20 years ago when I made my choice to switch it was after doing research as to the origins of the manuscripts from which the newer versions were derived. In the NIV versions you will note that when they do not include a particular word,line,or even entire passage, it's referenced as to why and it's usually because the Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic text used did not have it.
I wouldn't make an argument out of which version to read. As Grammy Blick mentioned, we should all do as the Bereans and search the Scriptures, ie. cross reference the Scriptures. You'll notice regardless of the version, God may have used one writer, for example, Matthew to write the same account of a parable Jesus told differently to Mark or Luke's account.
If God is leading one to read one version over another, follow the Spirit of the Lord. However, I would be careful about making public recommendations based on personal experiences only as well as seek out the background of the sources used for research. When you devotedly ascribe to a particular world view or belief, it's not difficult to find research to support it. For some of the researchers are often biased themselves. Not that I'm saying to ignore it, but make sure you do your research on the background of the researchers as well.
I'm most in agreement with Stephanie's comments on this post because of the use of her understanding of translating into other languages. Having missionary training and background myself and speaking a couple of other languages, you'd be surprised, maybe even shocked at how differently the message of the Scriptures are translated into other languages. It's been a long time since I've done a study on it, but I remember in one language, instead of the use of heart, intestines was used because it accurately translated the meaning of the word in that language.
Please don't judge me harshly, but I'd recommend that every American and Englishman go overseas and learn another language, Stay awhile with the natural people of the land and learn their culture instead of in the tourist locations, and try to share the gospel in their tongue. It's an education in itself of how translations work.
I'll always love the KJV and I refer back to it frequently when searching for a particular verse because I probably know it best. However, I'll continue to use the NIV in my everyday study until the Lord guides otherwise.
I believe the principle being taught in Romans 14 is applicable to this topic as well. Let's be careful about disputable matters among ourselves. Satan's goal is to destroy our credibility, to divide and confuse our witness. So I'll finish with Romans 15:5, "Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus: That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ." (KJV)
"May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus, so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ." (NIV)
Beverly
Very interesting post and I enjoyed the comments going back and forth!
ReplyDeleteFunny, I heard that the KJV was off kilter and the new versions we have are more reliable. I have never really believed any of this because like the Truth Sharer, I believe it is very difficult to translate from one language into another and get the correct meaning. God's word is living and active and I, guided by the Holy Spirit, will read a verse and understand it one way only to read that same verse later and understand it another way. I love to flip back and forth from one translation to another but I always make sure I ask for the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
Thank you for posting this very interesting topic I will be looking into this on a closer scale.
God Bless,
<><
Sad news about the NIV version. They are going to replace the current text, which they call NIV9184 with basically the TNIV which they call NIV2011. Now that they have a lot of people hooked on NIV they will liberalize it.
ReplyDeleteSee:
http://www.slowley.com/niv2011_comparison/
Greetings -
ReplyDeleteThank you Beverly and Child of God for visiting and commenting. Sincerely, I do appreciate your viewpoints.
@Beverly
At the beginning of my post I stated, "This a.m. the Lord led me to some Bible translation/version research." I am COMPLETELY
certain, and confident that I followed His leadings.
Also, throughout the post, I stressed for people to seek the Lord. In the post, it was stated, "As our Lord leads, it is wise to seek the Lord, pray, read, hear and seek the Lord, and pray some more."
You mentioned, "I would not make an argument out of which version to use." An argument is not what I made. I provided what the Lord led me to provide for people to use in whatever ways the Lord leads relative to the matters. For some, He may NOT lead at all to change while others He may. The role He gave me is "messenger." His Word states that His people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. It is helpful to receive information, and as I stressed, to seek the Lord relative to it.
My post did NOT recommend that people change the Bible versions that they use. I urged people to seek the Lord...based on what He led me to post.
My post also mentioned that I am NOT a gullible person, and do NOT believe all that I read or hear. Again, I am a firm believer in seeking the Lord, and praying about even the smallest matters - certainly others do, as well, including you, as I have learned from our conversations...
You stated, "Don't judge me harshly." Beverly, I don't judge you harshly or at all in an ungodly way for we know that that is sin. In fact, I deeply appreciate your strong stances because truly you make my brain work harder which is indeed good exercise (smiles). We have disagreed verbally often and come out every time with love and respect for one another. There have been numerous times that we have agreed to disagree - with love in the mix indeed! I know how we roll and it is cool with me, lady.
I am going to have to end this comment thread and continue...because it has gotten too long and Blogger limits....
continuation...
ReplyDeleteAs I mentioned in a comment yesterday to Stephanie, "...I must confess ignorance relative to foreign language Bible translation matters." Your recommendation is that "every American and Englishman go overseas and learn another language, Stay awhile..." I don't believe that it is GOD's will for every American and Englishman to do what you have recommended. I have a high appreciation for those that are, in fact, led to do it. They are those who are doing it and doing it with with excellene. Praise our Lord. There is a saying, "Some were called, some were sent and some just went." The ideal is to be called by GOD to do precisely what He has tailor made for each individual. Again, get the information, seek the Lord, pray, and seek Him some more...until it is unequivocally clear that the Lord is the Leader.
If He ever calls me to a foreign land, I may pray that He allow me to go to your home country, Beverly, so that I can inform your countrymen and countrywomen how you have been here in the USA wreaking havoc on the kingdom of darkness (smiles).
As for your comments about my research practices. Before the subject posting yesterday, I had previously (about two years ago) done extensive research about the Bible version matter. What I posted yesterday is just some of what I discovered. I provided the subject links for those who are so inclined to probe deeper. What I provided was sufficient for the aim which was to put the info out there. You know -we plant and water but GOD GIVES THE INCREASES. For me, the conclusion is what it is - for others...however they and the Lord handle it...
Relative to your statement about unity. I don't believe that I have posted anything here that represents disunity. In fact, my belief is that it has been helpful to learn of the varying viewpoints among us saints of GOD. It is obvious that we all love the Lord though we may disagree. That is not disunity nor is it unreasonable. Even the disciples who walked with JESUS didn't always agree. Healthy dialogue with disagreements can prove beneficial if handled in accordance with love, and wisdom...
Thank you, Beverly - we are clear on one vital matter - for sure - we love one another and we both know that we love our Lord.
Greetings Child of God and Timothy -
ReplyDelete@Child of God -
Yes, - Amen - "God's word is living and active..." Yes, we can recall when we have read scripture(s) and received different illuminations/applications/revelations. The Words of GOD are the most alive of any...Praise His awesome name.
@Timothy
Thank you for posting that link relative to the changed NIV. I briefly looked at it and found that it does NOT have, as does the original KJV, a Matthew 18:11, nor does it mention in Matthew 9:13 about "repentance" and in Colossians 1:14, it omits "through his blood." For me, those omissions, among others in the charts that I cited in my post yesterday, render me disinclined to usage of the NIV - changed or otherwise.
Let the record show - I love ALL readers but not all of the reading materials.
Prayer:
Father, in the name of JESUS, please help us to love You with all of our hearts, souls, and minds, and to love others, according to Your words.
Thank you, Lord - Amen
Shalom Sandra,
ReplyDeleteYou said, "For some, He may NOT lead at all to change while others He may." An interesting comment....especially in light of Ps.25:9
On the subject of unity in Yahshua (Jesus) I have a question ...who is the Word (according to the KJV) How many bodies does Yahshua have? And how many folds? And how many Good Shepherds?
Shalom In Messiah and thanks for your (Dec.13,2010[2:37PM] prayer---and I say Amein.
Hi Yuri -
ReplyDeleteThank you for your comments. I sincerely appreciate what all have expressed here about this matter.
I am not sure what you mean, Yuri, in your second paragraph. Would you mind clarifying, please?
I received this, via e-mail, from Rick who read my article on www.faithwriters.com.(He granted his permission for me to post his comments here):
ReplyDeleteRick to me
show details 7:25 PM (48 minutes ago)
Hi Sandra
Thanks for writing your article on faithwriters about Bible version usuage. I have always felt the Lord wanted me to use the King James. I also agree that many translations do change words that are very important. I have come to this conclusion. Man wants to understand the easy way. It takes the Holy Spirit to reveal and give revelation about the Word. If versions come out, which they have that try to simplify the word whereas the natural will understand, we then leave out the part that we all must have. We must all spend time with Jesus and the Holy Spirit. I always appreciated Paul saying:
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
it seems yo me people are trying to understand more from their intellect than their spirit man. I love the King James and the Holy Spirit opening up the scripture and revealing deeper meanings than what I can see in the natural.
Thanks for writing the article...Glad that I am not alone on this one. (Many churches are now using the NIV which changes scripture so drastically I feel like when a preacher quotes it that King James is entirely different)
Blessings on you..keep up the good work.
In Jesus
Rick
Thank you, Rick, for your comments, and for your compliment. I too am glad that you are not alone on this one.
ReplyDeleteThe varied viewpoints about this matter have indeed taught, and helped me. Truly, we are all unique - Praise GOD that we all love Him!
Wow, Sandra - I missed out on quite a lively discussion. It's been most informative! I'm not sure that I can add anything to what has been so very intelligently said before me (by you and all your commenters). I suppose I would only say this -
ReplyDeleteThe Word of God is alive and powerful. May we allow the written word to interact with the work of His Spirit, leading us into all truth. And may we take His instruction to heart, and wholeheartedly follow and obey His leading.
GOD BLESS!
In my previous post I said "Bottom line is that there are essentially only two Bibles"; one from Alexandria and the other the Word which YHWH has preserved down through the centuries for us to have today.” The words of the LORD [are] pure words: [as] silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever."(Ps.12:6,7KJV) I wonder what YHWH needed to preserve His Word from……Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
ReplyDeleteIn my second post I asked "who is the Word (according to the KJV)? How many bodies does Yahshua have? And how many folds? And how many Good Shepherds does the Scriptures speak of ?" This is what I learn from these questions: 1. There is only One Word {Yahshua/Jesus)[Jn.1:1]. 2. There is only One Body [Rom.12:4].3. There is only One fold; [Jn.10:16) and 4. Only One Good Shepherd [Jn.10:16] (Yahshua).
Therefore we as Protestants can admit to only one Bible (The KJV)
Notwithstanding that YHWH has used other versions to bring His people to Himself. This is so because all truth is from God, and there is some truth in the NIV and other versions. However, there is also error because the source upon which these were derived is corrupt.
In stating that there is only One Body because there is only One Word, One Truth; I therefore conclude that there can only be one sanctification (Jn.17:17); especially as it relates to those of us who have the opportunity to do the research and glean the truth regarding this most important matter (with the guidance of the Kodesh Spirit, of whom, Yahshua has promised, will lead and guide us into all Truth. (Jn.16:13)
For we [being] many are one bread, [and] one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread. [Cor.10:17]
My last Scripture reference should read 1Cor.10:17
ReplyDeleteand "Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption." is taken from (Acts 2:27;13:35)
Thanks
Hi Yuri -
ReplyDeleteThank you for providing the additional information. I appreciate your views and certainly they have helped. Also, thank you for providing scriptures to augment your views. That is quite appreciated.
You may be inclined to read the comments entered under the "TAG ON" here on this blog relative to this topic. The "TAG ON" post is found just above this post. If you elect to go there, please share there about your memorization of scripture.
Thank you, Yuri, for your visit and comments.
Greetings -
ReplyDeleteI received this, via e-mail, from Heather:
Heather to me
show details 3:35 AM (7 hours ago)
Hi lionseagle, I tried posting this comment on your blog, but it didn't work for some reason. There's my message below...thanks and God Bless!
-Heather Harris http://ponderingknoll.blogspot.com/
Hi lioneagle,
I was invited to read this post by someone and I appreciate what you had to say, and what you represent on this blog. Something you said really struck me as true, “Whatever I do not understand in the original King James Bible, I pray for the Lord to help me to know. In fact, daily before I open my Bible I pray for understanding – trusting that the Lord will illuminate what He needs to when and how He desires.” I think this sums it all up. I can’t help but feel that the reason Christians go to simpler versions (NIV, NLT, etc.) and to commentaries first, for understanding, is because we are lacking in faith. When we don’t understand something or see something we don’t like, we run to man to fix it, we expect man to help us understand it. Have we forgotten that it is the Lord Almighty that can reveal His Word to us and not man in his attempt to simplify God’s Word? I would never deny that the Lord uses Christians to encourage each other, (we know He says to! Rom. 14:19; 1 Cor. 14:31), but He only does that secondarily to meeting us in the secret place where, through His gentle Spirit, He reveals all the wonders and glory of Himself to us! And how wonderful it is to be with Him in prayer like that before opening His Word and soaking in His light! The Lord earnestly desires to be with each and every one of His children in this way, but it’s almost as if many refuse? Refuse an invitation from the King? I would be lying if I didn’t say that I am guilty of doing this, as sorry as I am to say it. Man is not the one to turn to, I can testify to that. If a Christian is going to the NIV or “The Message”, to help them understand it better, I don’t think they are going to get anywhere. If a Christian is going to the Lord to help them understand it better, they are going to get everywhere in understanding Him and His ways! It is His Word and not our Word, after all, but perhaps we have forgotten that? To deny self, (even our soulical desire to go to man to fix our problems), and follow Christ is not always as easy as it seems. Even so, there is one thing that is always my comfort and stronghold, even though my heart can’t grasp such love, “if we are faithless, He remains faithful” -2 Timothy 2:13.
Also…there was a statement I noticed in the comments that I am compelled to ask a question about. In what ways and with what proof can we say God changes His methods? These verses came to my mind when I read that… “For My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways My ways, says the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts.” –Isaiah 55:8-9; “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.” –Hebrews 13:8
Hi Heather -
ReplyDeleteThank you for visiting and for commenting. I appreciate the valid points that you have made and your beliefs that you have expressed.
You mentioned, "If a Christian is going to the NIV or "The Message", to help them understand it better, I don't think they are going to get anywhere." I don't agree, Heather, that they will not get anywhere because the Lord has used those versions to help people. My experience was that the Lord told me to cease to use the NIV and the Amplified except for rare times. He has specifically instructed me to mostly use the original KJV. You and some others agree with the original KJV position. Others don't agree with us, and truly, we cannot, with certainty, know how our Lord leads others.
I am certain that our Lord told me to post the information that I discovered about the Bible version omissions, etc. I obeyed as His messenger with the awareness that it is GOD'S role alone to give any increases relative to the knowledge that was shared. Our hearts belong to GOD and He leads each of us uniquely, and according to the specific and precise plans that He has for us individually and collectively. That is why I kept stressing repeatedly in both of my posts - the one here and the one that I posted after this one that is dated today, Thursday December 16, 2010, to SEEK THE LORD FOR HIS GUIDANCE - ONLY HE IS THE SOURCE WHO RULES IT ALL. AND WHAT GOD INSTRUCTS NEEDS TO BE ABOVE ALL!
You asked, "In what ways and with what proof can we say God changes His methods?" I agree Heather, that our Lord is the same, yesterday, today and forever. My belief is that He changes His methods in things like technology. Those methods are now used to spread the gospel whereas we didn't always have those means. We can now get the gospel on the Internet, on CD, on i-pods etc. That is one example of methods changing. God, and the gospel of the kingdom have not changed, I agree.
Again, Heather, thank you for visiting and for contributing your valuable comments.
Praise our Lord for how He is loved by His precious saints worldwide!
Hi, Sandra:
ReplyDeleteI don't know why I am commenting....I feel like a water lily amongst stronger fish. But I just have to tell you that when I became born again, I joined a women's Bible study (over 30 years ago) and the pastor's wife used mostly her KJV and I was drawn in by the sound of her words. I did not have the confidence to study with KJV, but purchased a study bible NKJV. Recently, I was given a KJV and a new confidence rose up in me so I really like to visit you enjoying your style of writing. God cannot be placed in a box; He is ever calling me to rise up into newness. Thank you for your friendship.
Hi Saleslady371 -
ReplyDeleteYou stated, "I don't know why I am commenting..."
My response is that you commented because you were so inclined. No comment is diminished on this blog. Comments are welcome from you and others.
I loved that you stated, "...I was drawn in by the sound of her words." Also, it was striking to me that you expressed, "Recently I was given a KJV and a new confidence rose up in me..."
"Crown of Beauty" commented earlier here (December 12th - 5:09 p.m.)"...However, I have also been reading the KJV and have noted...its potency and its power." She went on to state, "...I sense that my reading this post is a signal from God to move in that direction."
Thank you, Saleslady371, for complimenting my style of writing. I thank you for your friendship, as well. Please know that it is deeply appreciated. Also, you are welcome to comment here with whatever you are so inclined...
Sidebar: Last year, I had another blog and someone (here I'll use the name Kim) came on there and vigorously disagreed more than once. Kim's content was clearly not in league with our Lord. About the third time that Kim submitted a vigorous disagreement, I was inclined to delete the comment. The Lord stopped me. He told me to leave Kim's comment there because He, the Lord, had His purposes for having said comments to be there. The Lord further instructed me to respond to Kim in love. I did. Eventually Kim ceased to comment but I never deleted Kim's comments.
Also, when I created my blogs, the Lord told me to leave them open to anyone who is so inclined to comment, as opposed to "Invited" only.
Some not so pleasant comments have come in - one that I can recall used "Anonymous." That was on one of my previous blogs. The comment wasn't deleted.
The one thing that the Lord did tell me to delete is a comment that was promotional in content - promoting/marketing something. I kindly informed the commenter that marketing and sales pitches are not allowed here but that they were welcome to comment about spiritual matters on the blog. Those are the only types of comments that I delete, as instructed by our Lord.
Greetings -
ReplyDeleteI received this 12/18/10, via e-mail, from Heather
(it is shown here in two parts because of its length):
Hi lionseagle,
Thanks for your reply, I agree with a lot of what you say. You said, “I don't agree, Heather, that they will not get anywhere because the Lord has used those versions to help people.” I agree! Let me clarify what I was saying with that sentence (and I must apologize for the poor grammar structure, I wrote that comment in a hurry).
I suppose a better way to express my thought for that sentence would be, “If a Christian is not understanding something in the Bible, the best way He can gain spiritual understanding of it is by going to the Lord for understanding on it, where the Spirit will reveal the truth of God’s Word to him.” Although we can gain much “head knowledge” about the Bible by reading a paraphrase of the Bible, such as “The Message,” or a simple translation, such as the NIV/NLT, or commentaries and books, (which are all things that atheists, and all types of people trying to disprove God and the Bible, use to understand the Bible), we cannot gain spiritual understanding from those things because they are the devises of man, only the Holy Spirit can reveal His truth to us, (which is why atheists don’t understand the Bible, they clearly lack the Holy Spirit)…and yes, the Holy Spirit may reveal these truths to us while we are reading one of the above resources! It isn’t necessarily in the resource we are reading, but a revelation from the leading of the Holy Spirit, is it not?
I have known Christians that are almost superstitious about only reading the KJV, almost as if they think the words in that translation are the only accurate translation, and therefore, they hold some kind of “higher power” than other translations (and I’m not saying this of you! Have you met Christians like that, or do you know what I’m talking about?) The words themselves are just a mere translation of a language most of us can’t read! The best “version” of the Bible to read would be the original Hebrew and Greek, but since most of us don’t know those languages, we are helplessly forced to trust in the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth of God’s Word to us through our language, which happens to be English in our case. God cannot be so limited as to only reveal Himself through our English language, He reveals Himself to all people of all languages, regardless of their Bible translation from the original Hebrew and Greek, because it is His Spirit that reveals it through the words.
Here is the conclusion of Heather's comments received by me, via e-mail, on 12/18/10:
ReplyDeleteBUT, I do believe He purposes His Words to be translated as close as possible to the original languages amongst each language around the world. I happen to believe that the NIV, for example, does not translate it as close as possible. You have listed some of the reasons about that in your article above. At the same time, I don’t necessarily believe the only correct translation was the KJV. I read the NKJV and NASB on a regular basis, but use lexicons and other translations when doing a comparative study on the Bible. I think the KJV is perfectly poetical and a beautiful representation of our English language. There IS something about reading the KJV that feels almost “more spiritual” than reading other versions, but I think that could be either a blessing or a curse for a Christian.
I guess what I was trying to say over all, and not directly at you but in general about the topic, is that Christians seem to have forgotten that it is the Holy Spirit who reveals the truth of the Bible to us, and not certain Bible translations. This is why we see the Lord using all kinds of English translations to bring lost souls to Himself, (because it is the Holy Spirit that convicts them of their sin, not their Bible translation or man, “He will convict the world of sin” Jn. 16:8), and to encourage and convict Christians (through His Spirit, “when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth…” Jn. 16:13). To me, it seems as if the Holy Spirit is a forgotten aspect of the trinity in our generation, which is a very grave and serious loss to us. We rely too much on ourselves and on our “head knowledge” of the Bible, and not enough on the spiritual and the leading of the Holy Spirit…but that takes faith and we are greatly lacking in faith.
I have been so encouraged by your faith and showing forth of the work of the Holy Spirit! I think you have been led by the Spirit to declare here and to make very clear, that you feel you were personally led by the Spirit to read the KJV, and for others not to follow your example, but to go to the Lord for themselves and ask Him what they should be reading. There is such joy in the liberty the Lord has given us in His Spirit! Thank you for sharing your convictions with us, as personal as they were to you.
Oh, and I understand what you’re talking about with the changing methods, I thought the person that said it meant something else...thanks for the clarification.
Hi Heather -
ReplyDeleteThank you so much for your valid and wise comments.
I agree with you, "If a Christian is not understanding something in the Bible, the best way he can gain spiritual understanding of it is by going to the Lord for understanding of it,..."
In reference to your third paragraph, yes, I know what you mean there.
It was of note that you mentioned a number of times the need to be led by our Lord and His Spirit. That is great that you have such beliefs because there is no better way.
Glad that you are encouraged by my faith. I am encouraged, as well, by the faith of body of Christ members.
May we all strive steadfastly to go with the Spirit of the only true and living GOD.
It seems to me that the only perfect versions of the Bible are the ones that are direct copies of the original in the original language. Every translation will have some flaws just because they were translated by humans. Not only will some words here and there be translated incorrectly from time to time in every translation, but the translators will sometimes let their own beliefs get in the way of what the text is actually trying to say and change the wording to fit their own beliefs. Sometimes translators just don't understand the meaning of a phrase and attempt to make sense of it, and as a result make mistakes in translation. Plus, anyone who speaks multiple languages will tell you that there are some ideas that are very difficult or even impossible to acurately translate. The ideal way to study the Bible would be to use many different translations and compare them all simultaneously, all while looking at a Strong's to see the meaning of each word. I prefer to use the Bible on the computer to do this because I can see all of this at once. When using an actual book, I usually prefer either the Word Study Bibles that comes with a Strong's in the back, the Complete Jewish Bible, or one of the Literal translations. I like the literal translations because I usually don't have to use the Strong's as much. I like the Word Study Bibles because they come with a Strongs and have the Strong's number over each word. I like the Complete Jewish Bible because it tends to restore the Jewish-ness back to the writings of these original writers who were in fact Jews. Bible study is a study. It's not going to be a breeze. You have to really get in depth in the text, but those who truly seek, will find.
ReplyDeleteGreetings Rivkah -
ReplyDeleteI appreciate your visit and your comments. You are welcome here.
You have given some very valid points and information. It is quite helpful.
Thank you
The 1769 "Authorized King James Bible" is not the 1611 original "King James Bible."
ReplyDeleteThis website shows both versions:
http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/
Choose a text and click on it to see the 1611 version.
Hi Timothy -
ReplyDeleteGreat!
Thank you for this. I will go to view that site.
I rad all of this - comments and all - what a great post! Loved the discussion. This is what I call good blogging. I love the discussion and feedback. Very enlightening. I read it one morning on my ipod and couldn't respond then but wanted you to know how much I appreciated reading it all. Thanks for all your research and for posting it here.
ReplyDeleteI've nothing to add to discussion....except to say that I use several translations in my studies. I do that on purpose and will continue to do that. But I rarely use commentaries. You opened my eyes here. Opened some doors for me to seek further. My son-in-law is a pastor of apologetics. I'll be speaking to him about some of these things, as well. Thanks again for sharing.
Hugs, Patrina <")>><
Hi Patrina -
ReplyDeleteThank you for visiting and for your comments.
I appreciate your expressions about what you received from the variation of comments. There was certainly a mixture (smiles).
You are certainly welcome for my research. We, the body of Christ members, are in this together for the glory of our awesome Lord.
The advancement of His kingdom is vital for souls to be delivered from the hatred of Satan to the love of GOD!
I personally prefer the NASB, but I think the key here, no matter what version is used, is to make sure that we study to show ourselves approved. Studying is deeper than topical reading. I read no version alone, without exploring the root origins (Greek/Hebrew) and digging below the surface.
ReplyDeleteI don't believe a perfectly flawless edition exists for the average biblical scholar, so with that in mind, I will just continue to strive for Truth, and seek it out vigorously. I fully believe that the LORD will honor all who do so by allowing them to know what is and what is not Truth.
I do not use the KJV for one reason and that is found in Acts Chapter 12 verse 4.. I quote from the KJV And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.
ReplyDeleteActs 12:4 (KJV)
The Greek word translateed EASTER in only the KJV is Pascha used 29 times in the new testament and is only translated Easter once. The other 28 times it is properly translated as PASSOVER. WHY is this? Why is this deliberate mistranslation present only in the KJV.
Those who support the KJV say it is there because it is the only one who got it right. I am sorry but PASCAH is passover and is translated as such 28 other times. EASTER was a deliberate insertion into the text for whatever reason the translators thought to do so.
Since a little leven leveneth the whole lump I stopped using the KJV since I could not trust there not to be other INSERTED text or deliberate mistranslation of terms or portions of scripture. Therefore I am not surprised to find that the KJV bible shows many differences from other translations. COULD IT BE that the others are more accurate then the KJV?
I say yes since EASTER can not be found in any other translationg NOT even the NEW KING JAMES BIBLE.
If you wish to hold something up as THE ONLY or the SO CALLED Inspired word of God then it should not containt this OBVIOUS manipulation of text. Besides the KJV was translated in 1611 Why didn't God give an inspired text before this?
HE DID it is CALLED JESUS THE SON OF GOD the WORD MADE FLESH. HE is the only inspired word of God and therefore the final authority on all things God related. Only through the HOLY SPiRit sent from God to TEACH US ALL TRUTH can we know the mind of Christ.
NIV KJV RSV< NAS< ESV< AMP< YLT< DRAKES< ETC are all translations of earlier manuscripts. Therefore they all contain translation errors more so in the new testament then the old since the Hebrew scribes were far more meticulous then their Greek counterparts.
Read whichever translation that makes the most sense to you but FOLLOW not the book but the author of your faith JESUS CHRIST by the leading of his HOLY SPIRIT.
Once a man called Jesus, "Good master" and Jesus stopped him and said only God is good. Truly there is only one who is perfect or good and that is God. Anyone and anything else will let you down.
ReplyDeleteI have kept a list of typos in the back of Bibles in the past. But there are bigger things such as calling the Messiah the Latin name "Jesus" instead of the Hebrew name "Joshua."
I have firsthand experience of God straightening out a liberal Bible through what He told me -- through rhema.
I pray for Bibles around the world for without that the readers thereof wouldn't make head or tails of it.
Greetings -
ReplyDeleteThank you for visiting and commenting.
@Eaglewings
Your comments are indeed interesting. You are welcome here with the rest of us who love our Lord, and each other though we don't always agree...
Relative to the "Easter" mention in the KJV, I don't know much about that matter but what I do know is that, for me, the KJV is the best one for my spiritual growth and power. I have a Comparative Study Bible that includes the NIV and the NAS. And I have read a bit of the NKJV. NONE of those versions deliver the power and potency that the KJV does for me. Others agree that, of the English Bible versions, the KJV has more potency and power - while others disagree, and prefer other versions. Such is life. Love is the main issue because without love, we are nothing.
You said, "...but FOLLOW not the book but the author of your faith JESUS CHRIST by the leading of his HOLY SPIRIT."
I wholly agree with you, Eaglewings, on that statement - yes - Amen. Thank you for that potent truth!
Note: In particular, in reference to the NIV:
I found numerous instances where they omitted GOD and JESUS in passages that are in the KJV. That deeply concerns me. I prefer to read in the KJV where GOD and JESUS are there. You may be inclined to read my post dated December 16, 2010 titled, "WHY ARE GOD, AND JESUS REMOVED?..."
Again, I mentioned my experiences and how our Lord has led me. Certainly, I appreciate that we are all unique and are led by our Lord in different ways.
I am pleased that we all love our Lord....
@Timothy
You said, "Truly there is only one who is perfect or good and that is God. Anyone and anything else will let you down.
I fully agree, Timothy. Thank you for that on point message.
This statement I don't quite understand:
"I have firsthand experience of God straightening out a liberal Bible through what He told me -- through rhema."
Please help me to understand that comment.
Thank you, Timothy
I received this, via e-mail, from Rick:
ReplyDeleteHi Sandra
I am sure that he and all the others that have commented have valid points. Of course if we discard every translation that has an error..then what do we study? I am sure that KJV is not perfect either, yet from the differences that I have found that make a world of difference in beleif about faith and walking in the spirit, I find the KJV to be more accurate. Have you heard of melissa Scott? She does a word study on TV like none that I have ever seen. She apparently knows over 20 languages. She confirmed passages that KJV had written that othes had changed. She said also that the KJV was the most accurate of any. She did not say however that it was totally acurate. I am not a Greek or hebrew scholar so I could never honestly say. Assumimg that Strong's is correct, the best I can do with the Holy Spirit saying otherwise.
For some reason the thing that hit me more was when you and others said that something happened spiritually when you went back to the KJV. That spoke loudly to me and showed many possibilities of deception by the enemy and man. Bottom line to me, what does the Lord anoint? He anoints what is his. I trust that to be a good way to know. Does he confirm this or are they just words?
Blessings
Rick
Eaglewings-
ReplyDeleteShalom to you.
In your comment you said "Why is this deliberate mistranslation present only in the KJV." My question is: Where you or I there in the 17th century when the translators put together the KJV? My second question is: If we were there did we have the power to access the minds of the translators to read their motives? Or are we assuming that a deliberate mistranslation was made because Easter is pagan? (And I agree that Easter is pagan in origin). Or is there another possibility that we have not yet considered. Is it possible that there was another consideration that was more important to YHWH than the word Easter? And if it is possible that another more important consideration was taken into consideration by our ABBA, what could that more important consideration be?
Shalom In Messiah.
Eagleswings asks interesting questions, and "FOLLOW not the book but the author of your faith JESUS CHRIST by the leading of his HOLY SPIRIT" -- is a very good quote. We should be aware that God's word as defined in John 1:1 is His Son. However, where we read of Him is important.
ReplyDeleteEaglewings is correct that the word 'pascha' is translated Acts 12:4 as Easter and elsewhere as Passover.
Two references written later, 1 Corinthians 5:7 and Hebrews 11:28, refer to 'pascha' Passover not as a time but as an event. My personal view is that in the one instance of Acts 12:4, the translator was led to use Easter since this imprisonment was a specified time after the Resurrection. Of course, that is my opinion.
None of the original Hebrew or Greek documentation is available for comparison, nor are there scholars capable of comparing any more than the translators chosen by King James were capable. There are far greater errors in other translations -- which I do use for indepth study -- so the question truly is:
Since all translations have a bit of leaven, should we cease reading?
No. Emphatically, NO! Know why you use a specific translation. I use the King James because I believe it to be an inspired translation into the language I'm used to. In that respect, I believe it is from God. It is my responsibility to be as the Bereans:
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. [Acts 17:11 KJV]
The KJV is my book of choice in searching those scriptures daily.
I wrote, "I have firsthand experience of God straightening out a liberal Bible through what He told me -- through rhema."
ReplyDeleteI bought a New English Bible as an unbeliever for something to read. It was understandable. When I got to the New Testament I was grabbed by He who first chose me. As I read, I claimed promises out of that Bible, including asking, seeking and knocking for gifts of the Holy Spirit.
I got Word of Knowledge that way. As I was reading my Bible, The Lord would tell me, "what I meant there was ______." I found out He was giving me a conservative interpretation, despite the intent of the writers of the New English Bible!
Greetings -
ReplyDeleteThank you for visiting and commenting.
@Rick
You said, "I am sure that he and all the others that have commented have valid points...I am sure that KJV is not perfect either, yet from the differences that I have found that make a world of difference in beleif about faith and walking in the spirit, I find the KJV to be more accurate...
"For some reason the thing that hit me more was when you and others said that something happened spiritually when you went back to the KJV. That spoke loudly to me..."
Rick, I wholly agree with you. Your wisdom and love for our Lord and His truth is indeed appreciated.
@Yuri
Your points are to ponder - interesting questions, as well. Thank you for your valued insights... It is obvious, Yuri, that you are in love with our Lord and His Word. Also, typically, you are thorough in what you express and deep in content. Soul penetrating indeed!
@Grammy Blick
You said, "...that God's word as defined in John 1:1 is His Son. However, where we read of Him is important.
"There are far greater errors in other translations...
"I use the King James because I believe it to be an inspired translation into the language I'm used to. In that respect, I believe it is from God. It is my responsibility to be as the Bereans:
"These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. [Acts 17:11 KJV]
"The KJV is my book of choice in searching those scriptures daily."
Grammy, you stated much that I agree with, and support. In particular, the scripture from The Acts 17:11!
@Timothy
Thank you for the further info. In particular, I loved this that you said, "I got Word of Knowledge that way. As I was reading my Bible, The Lord would tell me, "what I meant there was ______." I found out He was giving me a conservative interpretation, despite the intent of the writers of the New English Bible!"