Greetings –
This was originally published on Monday August 9, 2010, on alternate blog www.eaglelionflame.blogspot.com which is on hiatus until further notice. Please, my "Followers," register on this blog as you did on the alternate blog. This is a back up plan against the wiles of the Devil. Thank you for your love and indulgence.
Hi Timothy –
You mentioned that you believe that both John the Baptist and Peter overreached. Also, your belief is that John did NOT have the Holy Spirit as we do. I replied that I disagreed as to John and Peter overreaching but responded that I would seek the Lord. This a.m., I did Bible study on the matter. Here are scriptures that I found:
About John the Baptist:
Luke 1:15
For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother’s womb.
In the book of The Acts 13:9 it mentions, …Then Saul…filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him.
Sandra’s comment: I know that JESUS stated in the book of The Acts 1:8, “But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me…”
Again, Luke 1:15 – it states that John was filled with the Holy Ghost from his mother’s womb (before the resurrection of our Lord)
Again, The Acts 13:9 – it states that Paul was filled with the Holy Ghost (after the resurrection of our Lord)
Sandra’s question: Is there a difference in being filled with the Holy Ghost before the resurrection vs. after the resurrection?
Another Spirit issue – from Old Testament
Judges 14:6
And the Spirit of the Lord came mightily upon him,…
Sandra’s comment: In the Old Testament, from what I presently understand, the Holy Spirit came upon GOD’s people. JESUS, in the New Testament (The Acts 1:8) also mentions the Holy Ghost coming upon… What is the difference between coming upon in the Old Testament as mentioned in Judges 14:6 vs.. coming upon as mentioned by JESUS in the New Testament? The only thing that I can think of is that they did NOT speak in tongues in the Old Testament or did they…do we know? It is understood that there are some things that we will NOT know until we get to heaven. I need, though, to do more study on that matter but am interested in the comments of others, please.
Also, Timothy, you mentioned that John the Baptist was an Old Testament prophet. Please explain your belief about that as he is only mentioned in the New Testament. Was he Elias? I ask because I read this in the scriptures:
Matthew 17:12
But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not,…
Matthew 17:13
Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.
More about John the Baptist:
Matthew 11:9
But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.
Matthew 11:11
Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Matthew 11:12
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
Luke 7:26
But what went ye out for to see: A prophet? Yea, I say unto you, and much more than a prophet.
Luke 7:28
For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.
Sandra’s comment: Timothy, I know that John was NOT sinless for none of us are - but I notice nothing scripturally to indicate that John overreached, as you commented, relative to his judging of King Herod for having his brother’s wife. I believe that he was led of our Lord to do just that. Do you have anything scripturally to indicate otherwise?
You mentioned that Peter also overreached in the matter of Ananias and Sapphira (The Acts 5).
The Acts 5:4
Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart: thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
The Acts 5:5
And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
Sandra’s response: Timothy, your comment mentioned that Peter used the gifts of the Holy Spirit to kill Ananias and Sapphira. The scriptures state that Peter spoke and Ananias fell down. He did NOT pronounce death on Ananias. He rebuked him for lying to GOD. As for Sapphira, Peter did say, “behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.”
Before he said that, he gave her opportunity to tell the truth. The Acts 5:10 states that she fell down “straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost:…” I believe that Peter did as led by our Lord. Do you have scriptural basis that proves otherwise?
Relative to John and Peter’s subject actions, nothing in scripture, to my knowledge, indicates that our Lord was displeased. If anyone has scripture basis that shows otherwise, please share.
Thank you, Timothy, for what you share . Truly you teach and I am grateful for what I have learned from you and others who contribute to my knowledge base. May GOD help us all to be ever learning and teaching for the advancement of His kingdom. Thank you, Lord!!!
© Copyright 2010
Hi Timothy,
ReplyDeletePlease weigh in on this..thank you
Also, Marijo, Susie and Karen
Thank you all
How many questions is that??
ReplyDeleteJohn the Baptist had the Holy Spirit come upon him just as happened to David and king Saul.
None of the Old Testament people were indwelt with the Holy Spirit. The authority to perform deliverance comes from that. The indwelling is also God's seal on us for salvation.
Jesus said in Matt. 11:11 that John the Baptist was a very great man, but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than him. Well if the fellow who got a d- to get into heaven has a higher grade than John the Baptist, then what did John the Baptist get?
John the Baptist criticized the Roman king over Judah. He was not part of Judah as everyone else he had chewed out. He was outside of the church. I strongly suspect he did that without guidance.
I did not count the questions Timothy - they were burning in me so I just wrote as the Spirit moved (smile).
ReplyDeleteRef John the Baptist: What about the scripture in Luke 1:15 that says, "...and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb."?
That does not say that the Holy Spirit came UPON John. It states that he was filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
This situation with Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5 is very unique. The severity of the punishment for the infraction has never been done before or since. They were giving most of their savings to the disciples.
ReplyDeleteIn verse 13, none of the people dared joined the apostles after that for fear. They associated the deaths with the apostles and Peter in particular. This event alienated the people from the apostles. Not good. Jesus never did that.
Peter didn't need to speak death to them for them to die. Jesus didn't have to speak healing over the people He healed. For instance, one time he stopped a funeral procession and quietly brought the fellow to life in the casket. Amazingly, they didn't drop the casket!
With regards John the Baptist, he was filled with the Holy Spirit (who came upon him) but he couldn't have been indwelt by the Holy Spirit or he would have been saved.
ReplyDeleteHi Timothy -
ReplyDeleteYou stated ref: John the Baptist, "...but he couldn't have been indwelt by the Holy Spirit or he would have been saved."
Are you stating that John did NOT have salvation or are you speaking of he would have been saved from King Herod's assasination?
Timothy, relative to your belief that Peter over reached with Ananias and Sapphira. I remain in disagreement that Peter was wrong. Praise our Lord that we can disagree - in love.
ReplyDeleteThank you for your viewpoints on the matter.
These differences are not relevant to our friendship or our fruitfulness.
ReplyDeleteIf Jesus was right, John the Baptist was not saved when He talked about him. There is the possibility he became a believer later and was saved.
I still think John the Baptist was not in a position to judge the Roman king. I'm going through my own past, confessing and renouncing all the times I personally have done that.
Jesus never spoke against the Romans. In fact Jesus forgave them on the cross. I don't think that forgiveness included His Jewish brethren. Jesus had pronounced woes against them (Matt. 23). They have certainly suffered under curses for 2,000 years since then.
Peter was one of the disciples who carried a sword the whole time. The Sons of Thunder were his brothers. I'd hate to see what he would do to one of today's feeble and compromised churches!
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI removed the above posts because I needed to correct some errors. Here are the corrected comments:
ReplyDeleteHi Timothy - I'm glad that we agree that we love one another (smile)!
I believe that John the Baptist was saved.
Where do you get "...that John the Baptist was not saved when he talked about him?" Also, "...the possiblity that he became a believer later and was saved?"
I found these scriptures:
About John - Luke 1:15 states, "...he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost,..."
Luke 1:16 - "And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God."
Luke 1:17 - "And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."
Timothy, are you saying that with all of that stated from scripture, that John was not saved and was not a believer? He sounds like a believer to me. He also sounds saved from the standpoint of scriptural content.
Timothy, your statement "Jesus never spoke about the Romans," made me go "hmmm."
ReplyDeleteI have never thought deep about that. You have compelled me, my friend, to research about it.
Very interesting insight, Timothy. Thank you
In Matt. 11:11, Jesus said, “Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he."
ReplyDeleteWhat is the kingdom of heaven that John the Baptist was failing to get to? This appears to be the citizens of the kingdom and the area of the kingdom's sovereignty. Since Jesus was talking about John personally, the first definition seems obvious. Ergo, he was not destined to heaven at that time. Quite a surprise.
Hi Timothy -
ReplyDeleteThis (John the Baptist) matter has been quite interesting....
Your last comments: A bit much for me to wrap my head around....
I rest on the matter...will seek the Lord further about it...welcome any comments from others...
Again, this has been good for discussion, and please know, Timothy, that I sincerely appreciate what I learn from you and others who love our Lord.