Yesterday I watched a live streaming Sunday service with the assistant pastor preaching. A large number of people were in attendance from his high school class of 1975. I cannot remember...there was either an upcoming high school reunion for them or one that had recently occurred. Anyway, the pastor had his high school classmates to stand to be acknowledged. There were smiles, applause etc.
Then...he gave the topic and subtopic of his sermon.
The topic: "The Final Reunion - Heaven or Hell"
The subtopic: "What in Hell Do You Want"
He proceeded to give a fire and brimstone message, the likes of which I cannot recall ever hearing. As the camera panned the congregation, initially, some looked stunned, others stiff-necked...
As he went on though, some people nodded in agreement,"Amen-ed," and encouraged the pastor. When he finished, more than a few stood up to show their approval.
In my opinion, it was an effective sermon. He articulated well, asked questions, and gave personal experience accounts, etc. I wondered, though, how his high school classmates felt? Some probably agreed... The bottom line is that the Lord had them there....
I know that you cannot fully comprehend as it is probably one of those, "You had to witness to give an opinion" situations, but will anyone weigh in on this based on what I have expressed here?
Was it too harsh?
ReplyDeleteWe are to share the truth in love - having said that I remember one quote about white walled sepulchers filled with dead man's bones.... I would like to think he prayed about the message and delivery - sometimes only shocking presentations are heard....
ReplyDeleteThank you, Marijo -
ReplyDeleteI am not sure what you mean about, "sometimes only shocking presentations are heard..."
Please expound
Thank you
Greetings -
ReplyDeleteRef: "WHAT DO YOU THINK - IS THIS TOO HARSH"
Karen sent this to my e-mail and I have her permission to post her comments. Here is her response:
Hi -
You are certainly right in saying that this is a "you had to be there" judgment. But from what you have described, the sermon was not "seeker friendly". My opinion on the matter is that more people are loved into the kingdom than scared into it.
My uncle's stepson was killed in a bar fight. At the funeral, there were many unsaved kids in attendance. They had a very sensitive service about being ready, because we never know how much time we have left.
Karen
I think sometimes it is all too easy for an unbeliever to not even listen to a gospel presentation - sometimes there is something to be said about shock effect and getting someone's attention with a sermon they might actually "hear"... I am trying to give the preacher the benefit of the doubt. Am thinking that the "brood of viper's" type sermons are not typical but can and are used if led by the Holy spirit.
ReplyDeleteI understand what Karen means.
ReplyDeleteIt is possible to do "fire and brimstone" in a spirit of love. I have heard testimonies of people who were scared into the kingdom and the scares were effective because they did get saved. One testifier stated that he preferred that approach.
The mother of the Winans' gospel singers said that that is how she got saved - scared into salvation. It worked effectively for her as she has served the Lord for many years and she and her Christian husband raised children to do the same.
It is proven that the fire and brimstone sermons work. We are commanded to speak the truth in love. I believe that fire and brimstone sermons can be done in love - still, I agree that more are won by the gentle more tender forms of ministering.
I heard a true worshipper say, "People would rather see a sermon than hear one."
The Word states that true Christians are known by their fruits. When we go and glow, it is obvious Whose we are...
Help us please, Lord, to represent You in our thoughts, words, and conduct. Thank you, Lord -Amen
Thank you, Marijo -
ReplyDeleteI just read your second comment on this. Yes, I agree...most definitely, we should be led by the Holy Spirit...that is so vital...
The Holy Spirit always operates in love....
It depends upon the culture you are addressing. For Jews in the days of John the Baptist and Jesus' first incarnation, it was ideal. That's what they deserved.
ReplyDeleteBut Jesus addressed the Greeks who came to Him differently. He used the Demeter myth to reach them. "20 Now there were certain Greeks among those who came up to worship at the feast. 21 Then they came to Philip, who was from Bethsaida of Galilee, and asked him, saying, “Sir, we wish to see Jesus.”
22 Philip came and told Andrew, and in turn Andrew and Philip told Jesus.
23 But Jesus answered them, saying, “The hour has come that the Son of Man should be glorified. 24 Most assuredly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it produces much grain. 25 He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. 26 If anyone serves Me, let him follow Me; and where I am, there My servant will be also. If anyone serves Me, him My Father will honor." John 12: 20-26
Who are you trying to reach?
I would have to agree with what Karen said. More times then not, people are loved into the Kingdom. I know I was. If you'd preached fire and brimstone at me, you would have scared me, but not into the Kingdom. You would have just scared me, or more likely scared me away.
ReplyDeleteI admit, some people may need fire and brimstone in order to see, but not all people are that hardened. I think that the person doing the preaching should be led by the Spirit in these matters...
Thank you all for your comments. I learned from each one of them and found content from all of the comments helpful.
ReplyDeleteJulie, thank you for stating that fire and brimstone would have scared you but not into the kingdom - but away...that is a help to know how you feel as it relates to you, personally.
I am NOT sure if it would have worked for me....
We all are in total agreement about the truth of the need to be led by the Spirit! That is core and imperative.
What about this, people?
ReplyDeletePastors need to preach about the full gospel and the topic of hell is in the Bible. So it should be preached about in sermons, right?
There are some pastors who have a prosperity focus, and some who soft pedal the gospel message for fear of offending parishioners. There is a balance to be struck, right?
I mean we should hear sermons about hell along with the rest of what is in the Bible. Nothing should be to the extreme but we need to hear the full gospel - hell information, included.
Unbelievers need to know what leads there and believers need to be reminded....
Help me on this, please.
Thank you
Again, I think that preachers need to be open to what the Holy Spirit tells them to preach. You can be reminded of hell without having a full sermon on the subject of hell.
ReplyDeleteThere are some unbelievers that if you preach hell to them, they will just laugh in your face, because to them, neither heaven or hell exist. Some will just get angry and tell you they aren't going to hell, and punch you in the mouth.
Hell is a touchy subject, and you've got to have the Holy Spirit's leading as to when and how to broach the subject, or you will, as with fire and brimstone, turn people away, instead of towards God. This is a subject that you've got to be careful with.
If the Holy spirit always operates in love then where did the "brood of vipers" and "white walled sepulchers" come from? I think those were inspired too - yes, hell is in the Bible and it should not be "skirted around" I do not put much stock in the "seeker friendly" type things from what I have heard about them. I was scared what my sister had told me about Rapture and Tribulation was true and I would be on the outside looking in - it motivated me to seek God (even though it was a selfish motivation it got my attention and the Lord did the rest!
ReplyDeleteThank you for your helpful comments.
ReplyDeleteJulie, you are on point relative to how to broach the subject...that is a lesson that I needed to know.
Marijo, thank you also for yur profound comments
and for sharing about your personal salvation experience.
You mentioned, "If the Holy Spirit always operates in love then where did the "brood of vipers" and "white walled sepulchers" come from?"
I believe that people can be called "brood of vipers..." in a spirit of love. Jesus called Peter Satan and we know that He loved Peter.
Love has to be tough in application at times, but it can still be love.
The truth can hurt. I am sure that Peter was hurt when Jesus called him Satan. It was necessary.
I can remember years ago when a Christian friend of mine spoke tough truth to me on more than one occasion. I was not as mature in Christ as she was. It was evident that she loved and cared about me. But she did speak tough truth to me. Each time, it penetrated and quickly sent me to the Lord in repentance with godly sorrow. Her words were not so nice but they were spoken in love. I felt the love in spite of her not so nice methods. It got the Lord's desired results because I humbled myself each time and got it right with Him.
Of course, things are case by case and differ.
...just sharing what worked for me, and for some others, as well.
I think the bottom line is that "HE knit us together in our mother's womb" Jesus knows what we need to hear and how we need to hear it.
ReplyDeleteI hardly ever give a forceful and "hard" message but sometimes it is necessary for the hearer and only the Lord knows those times and seasons.
We all have valid and scriptural points here. The most important is to be ready in season and out AND tho listen,listen, listen - get "self" out of the equation and be ready to speak whatever the Lord lays on our hearts in whatever tone of voice.... glad I am not called to be a preacher!
HE is able, oh so able and we, we are but dust....
I also think that sharing the truth in love is preeminent, truth can be difficult to hear if we are wanting to go backwards or sideways but truth is Jesus, moral absolutes are Jesus, absolute truth is absolutely our Lord and God - our rock and foundation.
Hi Marijo -
ReplyDeleteYou are right...thank you
I love that we all bring something meaningful to the "table."
I think it is important for us to listen to the Holy Spirit, and especially ministers. If anyone had told me to accept Christ or I'm going to Hell, I might have cold-cocked them in the mouth-back when I didn't know Jesus. The way I looked at it, I had already been through Hell in my upbringing, and Hell would not have been a threat to me.
ReplyDeleteIt was the love of Jesus I saw in genuine Christians that attracted me to Christ. Every audience (for ministry) is a judgment call which should be preceded with prayer, and checked by the Spirit of God. The Spirit of God is able to fill a vessel with the right topic/content, and essentially, give the words to be spoken.
Hi Susie -
ReplyDeleteYour comments are appreciated as they give a perspective that is enlightening...
You stated, "...I had already been through Hell in my upbringing, and Hell would not have been a threat to me."
Your comments really spoke to me as that perspective had not been much of a consideration to me. I needed that message, and the lesson that came with it.
All of the comments here on this topic have proved helpful and I am grateful for the expressions and truths that have come forth on this matter.
Truly, enrichment happened...
Thank you, all!
Love you Sandra... God is GOOD!
ReplyDelete